I think you r worrying too much. As long as you and your family travel to singapore with British passport, you are safe (even if your kids have 2 or 3 passports).
No country in their right constitution will kidnap a person who is assumed to be a former citizen of a country. Moreover, passport is the proof of your kids' nationality, not your kids' birthplace. Or else the passport has no meaning at all. Furthermore, there are so many families are in your case (mine too) and we encountered no problem.
Maybe that is why you do not find any information that relates to your worry. Because your situation is non-existance. If I were wrong, then many will not travel to Singapore, and Sing Govt will have their hands full dealing with foreign govt over issue like "British citizen forced to serve in Singapore", and that I think is illogical.
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but here's the facts.
1. Most countries are going to the biometric passports. This will contain all kinds of information including country of Birth.
2. Singapore already uses Photo ID Recognition software to catch persons returning to Singapore using different passports.
3. Most advanced countries are also tapped into Interpol. With their worldwide database at these countries disposal it will be rather easy to track people.
4. It will be only a matter of time be for the biometric passport data will be used for computerized passenger lists. These lists will be forwarded to all stops for a given flight including the terminal city. By the time the flight arrives, all information will have been checked with interpol, the arrival countries databases and so forth. Gotcha!
Even if the kid waltzes in using a British Passport, e.g., if his passport shows a Singapore place of birth or for that matter a Singapore Parent. Easy-Peasy to check against their own birth data records. If the kid was born in Singapore and was a Singapore Citizen, It wouldn't matter what kind of passport the kid was carrying, unless there is a record of renounciation in his file, he is still a Singaporean Citizen and will be subject to the laws of the country (including the carrying of two passports in violation of Singapore Law). And there is absolutely nothing that the British Government can do about it. The US government goes so far as saying that if you do have dual citizenship, you are subject to the laws of whichever country you happen to be in at the time. _________________ . . . .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore
I think you r worrying too much. As long as you and your family travel to singapore with British passport, you are safe (even if your kids have 2 or 3 passports).
No country in their right constitution will kidnap a person who is assumed to be a former citizen of a country. Moreover, passport is the proof of your kids' nationality, not your kids' birthplace. Or else the passport has no meaning at all. Furthermore, there are so many families are in your case (mine too) and we encountered no problem.
Maybe that is why you do not find any information that relates to your worry. Because your situation is non-existance. If I were wrong, then many will not travel to Singapore, and Sing Govt will have their hands full dealing with foreign govt over issue like "British citizen forced to serve in Singapore", and that I think is illogical.
then how the hell do you explain guantanmo bay and all the foreign citizens the US kidnapped to throw in there for the past five years without any due process of law?
or how about the secret prisons in Afghanistan set up by the CIA so they could literally fly into european countries, kidnap imams at mosques and beat them senseless?
the american who vandalized the cars and was caned six times in the early 90s?
how about that aussie woman a few months ago that brought in drugs (i think they were slipped on to her?) and was sentenced to death? did they kill her??
singapore does not seem to care about what other countries think of its legal system or whether they detain people.
Military or national service (NS) liable males who emigrated overseas before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, (e.g. applied for a Singapore Identity Card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11), will be allowed to renounce their Singapore citizenship if they do not wish to fulfil their NS obligations. They will be required to register for NS with Central Manpower Base and apply for deferment from full-time NS (NSF) until the age of 21, pending the renunciation of their Singapore citizenship. They can continue to make short social visits to Singapore and will not be required to serve NS if they renounced their citizenship at age 21.
As long as the OP follows the rules by the book, the kids shouldn't have any problems in the future but they need to act fast!
As long as the OP follows the rules by the book, the kids shouldn't have any problems in the future but they need to act fast!
I think, if you will re-read the OP's original post you will find that they did nothing by the books. Therein lies their problem. _________________ . . . .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore
As long as the OP follows the rules by the book, the kids shouldn't have any problems in the future but they need to act fast!
I think, if you will re-read the OP's original post you will find that they did nothing by the books. Therein lies their problem.
Agree SMS, the OP didn't do anything wrong back in 2000, unfortunately the problems lie now in 2006/2007 when the kids should have registered for NS by the age of 16 plus.
What amazes me is that the info is so readily available in black and white on the net. Due to no fault of their own, the kids could have commited an offence under Singapore law.
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but here's the facts.
1. Most countries are going to the biometric passports. This will contain all kinds of information including country of Birth.
2. Singapore already uses Photo ID Recognition software to catch persons returning to Singapore using different passports.
3. Most advanced countries are also tapped into Interpol. With their worldwide database at these countries disposal it will be rather easy to track people.
4. It will be only a matter of time be for the biometric passport data will be used for computerized passenger lists. These lists will be forwarded to all stops for a given flight including the terminal city. By the time the flight arrives, all information will have been checked with interpol, the arrival countries databases and so forth. Gotcha!
Even if the kid waltzes in using a British Passport, e.g., if his passport shows a Singapore place of birth or for that matter a Singapore Parent. Easy-Peasy to check against their own birth data records. If the kid was born in Singapore and was a Singapore Citizen, It wouldn't matter what kind of passport the kid was carrying, unless there is a record of renounciation in his file, he is still a Singaporean Citizen and will be subject to the laws of the country (including the carrying of two passports in violation of Singapore Law). And there is absolutely nothing that the British Government can do about it. The US government goes so far as saying that if you do have dual citizenship, you are subject to the laws of whichever country you happen to be in at the time.
I do not mind my bubble being burst This forum is what is about.
What you are saying is very informative but I still have my doubts that they had already implemented it. But if a smaller system that targets only criminals, I will believe. This is not realistic in many ways.
1. This system has clearly violated the Human Rights, and the rights of a person to go anyway they wish. We are not criminal. Why should the government be tracking our every movement?
2. Even without your sophiscated system, the government already knew where a person's orgin are. Why millions dollar system?
3. This system works if and only if they knew who they are tracking just like those criminal or terrorist. Your system will crash if the government wants to track every single people coming in and out of singapore. Not to mentioned the amount of security officers you needed to catch these offenders. Or the personnels who have to check around the clock who is coming in.
4. The government checking every single passengers in an airplane, ok, what if they got the wrong guy? What if my dad and I have the same name? My dad was born in Singapore, but I was born in UK? Or what if there is another guy who was born in Singapore and another guy with the same name was born in UK? Chances are very high, and the system have to make sure that it can discriminate it. DNA will work but come-on, DNA for every child born in Singapore. Good Luck.
5. Hit me on the head if I am wrong. Do parents in Singapore given the note that said "Military or national service (NS) liable males who emigrated overseas before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, ..blahblah... at age 21." Everybody makes a mistake by forgetting to renounce their citizenship. Is that punishable for 2yrs in NS? It is absurd.
6. I am ignorant in database and world computer system. But the system must involves with many countries. How can the government do upgrades, checks, edits, etc. and not to mentioned that they have to have a top of the class security to stop hackers and virus. Another government department to handle all these? Taxpayers money?
7. And another problems is (like you said) not all countries have biometric passport. So, some people get away, some dont. That is not fair.
To huggerbear
Bush has violated the Habeas corpus in Guantánamo Bay. I am not sure what is the end result, but Bush is in a lot of trouble. _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
They have been catching returning Maids using different passports with different names for a couple of years now. A number have been caught with the photo recognition software.
Using biometric data they could just do a standing query for any individual that shows a Singapore Parent. If the computer pops up one on a passenger list then it's very easy to check further and for that matter tie into their own databases. If there is enough points raised the an officer would be dispatched to interview the incoming transit.
Are you aware that NSA has been reading the worlds email for almost 10 years? The electronic evesdropping is so sophisticated that it looks for certain words/phrases in email and from there flags it for further investigation. (It doesn't stop the email just reroutes a copy of same). If the US (which is way behind Singapore's capabilities IT wise) can track Income Taxes for 300M citizens, it's small potatoes to link multiple international databases together. Interpol has been doing that for years.
Your items 6. I would have to agree with you. You don't know too much about databases and it's obvious. Governments DO have top class security. And yes, they do have departments to handle all these. And Yes again, using taxpayers money. Probably the ARF you will spend when you buy your car.
Oh, one other thing...... Your item 7!
The world's not fair. Nobody ever claimed it was. Get used to it. Not all countries outlaw or try to apprehend Terrorists either. But it doesn't stop the remainder from trying to stop Terrorists does it. Aren't you glad? Kinda like a two way street ain't it! _________________ . . . .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore
Thank you for reminding me that I am ignorant in Database..... LOL
Strictly speaking, NSA did manage to monitor millions of email coming in and out of states. NSA got into trouble doing that. Furthermore, they did not even catch those terrorist who had links to 911. The NSA has data that is only strictly for terrorist. Those who are unknown get through the custom. Singapore, interpol, what ever agency has it too.
I will just take your word for it that sinpapore IT is better. But come on, will singapore government spent so much money on 1 teenager so that he will leave the country after 2 yrs of NS?
btw, maid using fake passport has nothing to do with this, is there a connection?
To screen out every single person in the world to catch 1 skinny pimple faced teenager for NS! And to treat them equally as terrorist!
Viva la Singapore! _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
Whether or not they caught anybody or if they got into trouble for it is rather immaterial don't you think? Just how much trouble do you think it is? To set auto screening paramaters? You have antivirus software I would guess. Right? How do you think they catch the viruses before you do? How many emails does the antivirus software of Yahoo or Google catch hourly?
the software databases contain all kinds of data and can be used for most anything. Don't you think Singapore maintains a database on all of it's citizens? It's already been done. Have you been in a cave for the past 10 years? The CPF board, IRAS, MOH, and shortly all medical records will be all linked together (only the Medical records are not yet linked, the other already are. Why do you think you only need one password to access them all?
You don't seem to be able to see the forest for the trees. Welcome to the new world. There is no such thing as privacy anymore. I'm almost 60 and I can understand it. Surely you can. As far as maid go, I'm just pointing out the the photo recognition software can be used for all kinds of things. Most of the newest security systems use either photo recognition, fingerprint recognition or retina scans for identity. How do you think they figure out if you are authorized? Databases.
You don't have a clue what info NSA has or what they can do.. I had a better opportunity as my ex-father-in-law actually worked for NSA as a GS 18 (as high as you can go in the US Civil Service supergrades) until his retirement and then went back as a double dipper consultant at Ft. Meade, Maryland.
Haven't you ever wondered how a lot of drug runners have gotten picked up at Changi?
SMS.... it is not my closed mindness LOL ..... just that I do not see the need ....
I see the future, but I must also see the necessity behind it.
You said, ......
"The CPF board, IRAS, MOH, and shortly all medical record" I agreed should be connected by a large database to expediate the work, decrease work load etc. This is money well-spend.
You have many great examples, virus, terrorist, drugs runners, maids..... all these are necessary because they posed a threat. Again this is money well-spent for something that is logical
Not agreeing spending billions of dollars for a harmless teenager so that he can serve the NS does not prove that I "got a closed mind to the near future". It is just unnecessary. What threat does a teenager who did not even know Singapore? He is not even going back to defend Singapore when war really starts.
What next?
Build a database system so that we can catch a person whose DNA originate from Singapore? And later force him for NS? Yeah right.. This is the future. _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
Haven't you ever wondered how a lot of drug runners have gotten picked up at Changi?
almost forgot about this.....
You got to be kidding me right? Are you trying to claim that Singapore custom can catch me with drugs by the way you are talking about? I thought the dogs sniff the drug out!!
Wow.... I am in the cave for 10 years..... _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
Haven't you ever wondered how a lot of drug runners have gotten picked up at Changi?
almost forgot about this.....
You got to be kidding me right? Are you trying to claim that Singapore custom can catch me with drugs by the way you are talking about? I thought the dogs sniff the drug out!!
Wow.... I am in the cave for 10 years.....
guess so...... The cave is pretty dark apparently. I'm not "trying to claim" anything. The information I am giving is from those who have used it.
My brother-in-law (well, not real sure if that is the correct term as he is married to my wife's Brother's wife's sister ) is a now retired DEA agent who was assigned to Singapore / SEAsia for 12 years. He retired here about 7 years ago (he's married to a Ex-SIA Stewardess) and is now a PR here. (He also has a security firm here) A large percentage of the drug pickups here are all courtesy of transmitted data from Thailand, US, and other countries all linked into the central DEA databases. The cooperation between the US and Singapore is very tight. The ones that are picked up normally by the dogs are the private users who are trying to make a buck to help pay for their own habits. The professional mules are usually sussed out before they even take off. The dogs only confirm the information already collected. The dogs don't sniff humans, only baggage. Not like in Aus where you stand in line and the dogs can smell you as well.
Oh, why would Singapore have to spend millions to catch a NS defaulter? The databases are already in place to collate the data of all citizens. It could be just another standing query to automatically flag anybody carrying a foreign passport with a Singaporean Parent in the biometric data....... The data would be scanned as it was being received from the sending country much the same as email is scanned.
I am 31years graduated from the top university in US, and blahblah... It does not make any difference who or how old I am...... does it? My old friend. I am talking to you as an equal. It is not necessary to bring down my point of view because of my age. And you do not have to prove that your point of view is right because of your old age either.
Anyway, I do not like to argue this way. This is not my way....
OK, Since we are not talking on the same page. I will go another way.
I will come out of the my bat cave and you should turn on the light for me.
You keep claiming that the government will catch a foreigner for NS. Well, can you prove it?
Thousands of Singaporeans migrated overseas ever since the declaration of Singapore independence, and there got to be 1 in your entire 60 years of history that can prove your point.
Now I will give 1 example why this catch-singaporean-turn-nationality-for-NS does not work.......
For instance, a baby who was born in Singapore, goes to Japan at 3month old, speak only Japanese. The parents died before they could ever change the baby citizenship. Now, he grow up being a Japanese, goes to Singapore for business trip, and because he is a Singaporean Born, he has to go to National Service without knowing his past? Do you really think that will happen? _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
I am bored at work too. Thank you for the articles. A little different from this situation, but it does make a very good argument. This has completely changed the whole argument. Melvin Tan has changed his nationality and he is still been charged. Oh my goodness!
In that case I will change my position and agree with SMS. The govt can break a family apart and force a person into national service (even though his nationality is different. Really Democratic!).
I thought Singapore Govt would not be that unreasonable to force foreigner into national service. It seems to me that I was wrong. Thank goodness that I was informed sooner than later. Sad to think that my kid cannot go back to visit my family.......
Well, Folks.... this was a good argument . SMS has won the argument, and I wish Singapore best of luck because you guys really need it. _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
brudder! don't think of it as "winning." just consider urself better informed (or seeing daylight after hibernating in the cave??)
with age comes experience. everything is really just a big cycle. Iraq could be compared to vietnam, sudan / rwanda could be compared with cambodia. current US environment draws parallels to mccarthyism...it's one reason why the movie "fog of war" was such a hit in the U.S. the current subprime mortgage implosion resembles the S&L crisis.
don't listen to the tone of the message. just listen to the message.
Thanks for the advice. I am not self piting myself nor am I afraid to admit being wrong, it is part of the growing process.
This entire issue has made me mad not because I was wrong or the message itself, but because of the what is constituted as a human right by the Singapore govt.
But if you think about this NS issue carefully, my basketball bro, it not only claims that we (singaporeans) have an obligation to serve National Service but it also said that if your wife had a kid in Singapore, your kid must serve NS as well (even though clearly you and your wife has US citizenship, and you will have every intention to drop your kid's Singaporean Citizenship in the future).
According to your source, Melvyn Tan has already renounced his Singaporean Citizenship in 1978. And he is still liable for NS and jail sentence is really shocking to me.... Or am I over-reacting? Even though I will renounce my son's citizenship, my son is still liable for NS in the future?
I am amazed that "Some observers said he had been let off easy because of his stature......" . What is going on?
I may be living in a cave right now, but those who are living outside of the cave will think that way is making me speechless......... _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
My apologies regarding the age crack. I had written it but then deleted it. I did not realize I had somehow posted it as well. Hence the two identical posts with the second one not having the remark. After I originally typed it I realized it had absolutely no relevance to the dialog. Again, my apologies.
However, I still stand behind my hypothesis (I never claimed they were using everything already - only the Photo Recognition Software)This IS being used to catch returning maids, foreign labourers & prostitutes using new/different passports after being deported out of Singapore.
This wasn't an argument. This was a good discussion. At the end of it I've realized a few things as well. One is that I know nothing about US basketball! And two, if we think hard enough and long enough we can find a potential exception to every rule.
Dear SMS, I apologise my ignorant too, but I learnt alot.
It is even serious than I thought. I like to have my kids meet their grandmother in the future. But knowing that it will put him in jail and thousands dollars of fine even after renouncing citizenship is not comforting.
What the h_ck .... maybe I am just worrying for nothing.
I will try fantasy baseball .... LOL
Good Luck
Nuff said _________________ "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
Military or national service (NS) liable males who emigrated overseas before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, (e.g. applied for a Singapore Identity Card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11), will be allowed to renounce their Singapore citizenship if they do not wish to fulfil their NS obligations.
Well it does look like the main crux is the IC or studied beyond the age of 11! _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
Military or national service (NS) liable males who emigrated overseas before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship, (e.g. applied for a Singapore Identity Card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11), will be allowed to renounce their Singapore citizenship if they do not wish to fulfil their NS obligations.
Well it does look like the main crux is the IC or studied beyond the age of 11!
Been thinking about this for a while now, based on my son wanting to join the army at 16, at first i tried very hard to talk him out of it, simply because over the years I could see, he was kind of wanting to be like dad. This worried me quite alot, having not been there for him, because of divorce, he was obviously suffering an identity problem of which I believed he would grow out of.
The fact is mother had signed the papers, and after several months of strict discipline realised, he had made a mistake and begged his mum to get him out, this didn't materialise, and he was automatically transfered into manservice, and went awol, eventually they caugt him, more than once i must say, but is punishment of prison, is certainly questionable, considering he was a volunteer. In all he spent well over a year behind bars for not accepting brainwashing!
This had an adverse affect on his mental state and for the government in general, these harsh victorian methods are out of touch with reality today, although have anyone informed the MOD.
My worry is, that if a young man is not at the age of consent, why should he be held by a parental signature! This method of taking signatures from parents on the behalf of there children, no matter what Country they live, must be seen has a breeach of human rights, A parent should not be allowed to sign these papers, or a government should not prey on the parents of children to do National Service.
It is my true oppinion, that National Service should be encouraged, by loyalty to a nation, and rewarded as such, but individual rights must be respected, it is not about being scared to do Military Service.
If the age of National Service is 18 year old and can be defered, then, these 18 year olds must be responsible for their own futures, and not a parental promise by signatures.
This way the adult can self choose, without the pressure being on all the family, and lets be fair here, kids don't have much choice in life do they, So its very wrong of government to prey on them this way! although until there is a challenge through the judicial system, things will remain the same.
I would think it better to have loyalty in the services, than have a bunch of unhappy, bitter, young mutineer, in the time of combat, that are skilled to act against the government.
I often wonder, how many of the IRA had served in the British Army, and were quite highly skilled only to gain intelligence for the future! Of course most governments look at the expendability of the force, they are recruiting, simply because they don't have to stand side by side, with a noncombatant, of which there are many, in the service, with this ideology!
It would also be nice to see an option on sign up too! Like I will solemnly declare to defend my Country and solemnly declare not to attack anyother! _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
I served my National Service from July 2000 to Nov 2002. No doubt it was a tough time, but definitely a very memorable period too. During these 2.5 yrs, I learned not only on how to fight in a war, very importantly I learn how to be a better person. Surprisingly, NS taught me how to treasure things and people around me and also to be more matured.
If you ask me if I feel I have wasted those 2.5 yrs... I will say no... But if you ask if I wanna go back to that period... NO WAY!!! Ha....
Overall, NS can really help to change a boy to a man...
Cheers... _________________ _________________
I am not driving fast - I am just flying low...
I served my National Service from July 2000 to Nov 2002. No doubt it was a tough time, but definitely a very memorable period too. During these 2.5 yrs, I learned not only on how to fight in a war, very importantly I learn how to be a better person. Surprisingly, NS taught me how to treasure things and people around me and also to be more matured.
If you ask me if I feel I have wasted those 2.5 yrs... I will say no... But if you ask if I wanna go back to that period... NO WAY!!! Ha....
Overall, NS can really help to change a boy to a man...
Cheers...
Quote:
Overall, NS can really help to change a boy to a man...
Did you know, i started shaving the bum fluff at 13 years of age, lost my cherry, and drank booze illegally, becuase i couldn't wait to be a man, and add to that my first tattoo.........You didn't guess! It was (MAM) tatooed, hoping that she wouldn't beat the crap out of me, and she didn't, she called me a bloody fool, and gave me a pep talk on the company i was mixing with, she cared and grounded me until i had better sense, to listen to her.
At the age of 18, i signed my life away on a 22/9 year option to become a professional, after 12 years I was questioning myself, and my peers about the injustices we had to carry out, in the name of what, I still don't know! Others said it was our job, not duty But after seeing my mates get killed for political stardom and double morals, the smoke screen laid down was lifting, and i could see the light! That we the soldiers, were being sold out for political gain.
I quite often get flamed for my opinions, although what my mum taught me was fairness, equality, truth, and loyalty and to appreciate people for what they are, and not by skin colour living where i lived in an area of all whites, it wasn't long before i was defending the meek and timid. Colour, religion, or race has never been an issue in our family.
Having a catholic IRA sympathiser for a father, who by the way was British ( I wasn't aware they exsisted) and only sympathised because his sister was married into an Irish catholic family and more for the workering class and a Welsh mother who used to battle politics on a daily basis, soon turned me off voting for anyone in the future. It was a mad house,
Although when you talk about making a man out of you in NS, I will say it is a very important part of life, that should be experienced, I'm not saying one should enjoy it, but learn from it and use it in a beneficial way.
But it is wrong to be forced into it! I stand firm and fast by cassius clays stand against the American authorities, and against anyone that refuses to soldier on private beliefs, it is their rights, and no one asks them to be born into this troubled world. _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
In Singapore situation, the Government has no choice but to enforce constription. Singapore is an island country with about 4mil population. We do not have any natural resources to support ourselves, and geographically, we are surround by Islamic countries. Thus without enforcing compulsory NS, Singapore will not be able to defend ourselves should problem arise.
Other than the UN peacekeeping mission, Singapore has never sent the army to take part in any overseas wars. We learn from the WW2 that to defend the country, we have to rely on ourselves and no one else. Thus, I will think that the Singapore army are more for defend purposes and not invading (like the US army) purposes. _________________ _________________
I am not driving fast - I am just flying low...
In Singapore situation, the Government has no choice but to enforce constription. Singapore is an island country with about 4mil population. We do not have any natural resources to support ourselves, and geographically, we are surround by Islamic countries. Thus without enforcing compulsory NS, Singapore will not be able to defend ourselves should problem arise.
Other than the UN peacekeeping mission, Singapore has never sent the army to take part in any overseas wars. We learn from the WW2 that to defend the country, we have to rely on ourselves and no one else. Thus, I will think that the Singapore army are more for defend purposes and not invading (like the US army) purposes.
I think we also have to be realistic here, Singapore is not at all likely to fight any wars, or defend itself, being an important financial hub in the world and a very important strategic port.
I served here in the late 70 in an armoured recce unit, based on Dover road, affiliated with the 6th Gurkha Riffles.
Your right NS for defence is very important and in my opinion should be considered by all, 2.5 years is nothing, and believe me, Singaporeans may believe they have gained little in 40 years, but when compared to UK, or the USA, they should really be thankful for what they have got, in comparison to the poor.
One should always be thankful for what they have, because many are much worse off around the world and even on the doorstep!
Singapore offers opportunities for advancement, so one needs to consider the sacrifices, to take advantage of the opportunities, not easy, but not impossible either, and i do actually see people making that effort to succeed. _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
I agree with you that it's very unlikely Singapore will ever go into a war. Other than being a defend force, I think the second reason for the existence of a conscription army is to prevent other neighbouring country from the North from "bullying" Singapore or force Singapore into some unfair agreement. _________________ _________________
I am not driving fast - I am just flying low...
LT, in a conversation that I had with the now retired Winston Chew many years ago (I lived in Seletar Camp for 15 years) at a New Year Social function in the base, he told me that the most that the Singapore Forces hoped for was a 72 hour standoff capability. This capability would allow Singapore's allies the necessary time get here to provide needed allied support. While it's capabilities have increased dramatically since those days, I feel the 72 hour standoff capability probably is still very much a part of the basic game plan. _________________ . . . .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore
LT, in a conversation that I had with the now retired Winston Chew many years ago (I lived in Seletar Camp for 15 years) at a New Year Social function in the base, he told me that the most that the Singapore Forces hoped for was a 72 hour standoff capability. This capability would allow Singapore's allies the necessary time get here to provide needed allied support. While it's capabilities have increased dramatically since those days, I feel the 72 hour standoff capability probably is still very much a part of the basic game plan.
Hi SMS,
You referred to Lt-Gen Winston Choo? He's a very nice guy... I believe with the current SAF's capabilities, we are definitely be able to hold back the hostile forces for more than 72 hours.
Singapore has several overseas air bases around the world. The 72 hours standoff is also for our overseas air bases to fly back to Singapore. _________________ _________________
I am not driving fast - I am just flying low...
Sorry my spelling was incorrect but yes. I met him at an Officers New Year's party at the old Officers club there down where the old Saltwater Pool was located (I've actually been swimming in that pool!) Been here a long time!
Yes, agreed it would let the overseas based airforces return but even so, one has to remember that our neighbours haven't been just sitting on their heels either. I think it still boils down to the same scenario (the time duration will probably have changed) and that is why Singapore still conducts 5 power defense exercises and so forth. Otherwise it would pretty much be a waste of resources wouldn't it. They have to hedge their bets as a max call-up of 350K men isn't enough to do much of anything except get in each others way considering the fitness levels of 2/3's of them at any given time. I'm just being realistic here and in no way trying to diss the military. _________________ . . . .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore
Sorry my spelling was incorrect but yes. I met him at an Officers New Year's party at the old Officers club there down where the old Saltwater Pool was located (I've actually been swimming in that pool!) Been here a long time!
Yes, agreed it would let the overseas based airforces return but even so, one has to remember that our neighbours haven't been just sitting on their heels either. I think it still boils down to the same scenario (the time duration will probably have changed) and that is why Singapore still conducts 5 power defense exercises and so forth. Otherwise it would pretty much be a waste of resources wouldn't it. They have to hedge their bets as a max call-up of 350K men isn't enough to do much of anything except get in each others way considering the fitness levels of 2/3's of them at any given time. I'm just being realistic here and in no way trying to diss the military.
In regards to the fitness level, ha... more than 90% of the armed forces consists of working adults... and most of their fitness level is no longer there.... I was from the Commando... and my fitness level is worse than anybody out there now.... _________________ _________________
I am not driving fast - I am just flying low...
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) is a now retired DEA agent who was assigned to Singapore / SEAsia for 12 years. He retired here about 7 years ago (he's married to a Ex-SIA Stewardess) and is now a PR here. (He also has a security firm here) A large percentage of the drug pickups here are all courtesy of transmitted data from Thailand, US, and other countries all linked into the central DEA databases. The cooperation between the US and Singapore is very tight. The ones that are picked up normally by the dogs are the private users who are trying to make a buck to help pay for their own habits. The professional mules are usually sussed out before they even take off. The dogs only confirm the information already collected. The dogs don't sniff humans, only baggage. Not like in Aus where you stand in line and the dogs can smell you as well.
It was a mad house,