Singapore Expats Forum
Singapore Expat Forum and Message Board for
Expats in Singapore & Expatriates Relocating to Singapore

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

Can anyone out there help???
I remarried and bought my 2 sons, one born in 1990 and the other 1991 out of singapore in 2000, which means one is out at the age of 10+ and the other 9+.
They have since been adopted by my husband, have british passport and birth registration in the uk. The boys never went back to singapore to sort out their I/C.
They intend to continue to live and study in the Uk and have no intentions of becoming singapore citizens.
How can I be sure that if they do return back to singapore for a holiday, they will not be captured and sent to jail for escaping NS?
What do I have to do to ensure we are not breaking the law?

jpatokal · Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject:

Were they originally Singapore citizens, or just Singapore PR?
_________________
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

They were originally singapore citizens

jpatokal · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:16 am Post subject:

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

Gee thanks, thats comforting. Anyway out of the situation???

ksl · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:23 am Post subject:

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

Some truth there, I'm sure they can learn alot from the national service, but they are really not singaporeans in thinking, if you know what I mean. They have been away from singapore at a very young age, speak no chinese anymore, really they are bananas( yellow on the outside, white inside)
Also, by the time they finish uni here, they would be above the age of 21. Can they just disappear from singapore, at age 21 , send a letter in renoucing their singapore citizenship. Isn't life that simple?
If they serve NS, at the end of the day, they will have to choose between singapore or UK, they will definitely choose UK, so whats the point of serving NS.

Plavt · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:08 am Post subject:

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

They are technically singaporeans because they are born here and they have not renounce their citizenship because they are below the age of 21. They have got UK registry of birth and british passport because my english husband have legally adopted them which gives them the right.

briceloh · Reporter Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 514

briceloh · Reporter Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 514

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:24 am Post subject:

Additionally, even if you keep them out of Singapore until they pass 21 the Singapore Government will not accept formal renunciation unless they have done their NS. This means regardless of their ages, if they step foot into Singapore they stand the possibility of being apprehended by the Gov't. Granted they would be traveling under a different passport and due to the fact that they didn't receive their IC's yet. It's a possiblity that they wouldn't ever be caught. This would depend on a lot of things including things like biometric passports which would have a lot of data not normally found on a typical passport (things like the parents names and nationalities?) A biometric passport might have you listed as a Singaporean parent which might cause Singapore Immigration computers to throw up a flag for further investigation. The passports may also contain information like place of birth (regardless of the fact that they also hold a British Birth Registration) My children have two Birth Certificates as well. As the biometric passports contain lots of data, and with terrorism such a big thing, it's always possible that this data will be collected in an "intropol" type database only by getting onto a plane and then being shared thoughout the world and especially with the countries where a given plane will be landing. "Forewarned is forearmed".

These are just thoughts. My son will be doing his NS probably late this year. I, contrary to a lot of individuals on this board, believe in NS and think it is not a waste of time. In your case, I understand the reluctance as they have never lived here. You may want to try contacting ICA in Singapore for more accurate information or solutions.

sms
_________________
. .
. .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

Thats whats I was thinking about as well, they have since adopted a new surname, but the place of birth on passport is still singapore, thats the tell tale sign I am afraid about.
I read somewhere before that if the child have left singapore at a very young age, as quoted' did not enjoy the benefits of singapore' will be exempted, but they did not specify how young.
But again, whats the logic of forcing someone to go for NS and then renounce citizenship?? Don't you think its more of a threat to the stability of the country??

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject:

Squid,

I think the age is under 10 years old. I'll try to find a link and if I can I'll post it. But you would obviously have to be equipped with sufficient documents to prove that they have been out of the country since only a couple of years old. This shouldn't be much of a problem though. Let me see what I can find.

sms

Here is some info but not what I am looking for:

http://www.wwlegal.com/module-subjects-viewpage-pageid-14.html

AAAhHhhhh! Here it is......

http://www.parliament.gov.sg/reports/public/hansard/section/20060116/20060116_S0005.html

jpatokal · Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject:

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

That is one hell lot of reading to do, I'll try and digest it and see if I get the answer that I need.
Thanks a great deal!!

briceloh · Reporter Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 514

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:50 am Post subject:

Briceloh,

Twice as much? Laughing

_________________
. .
. .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore

squid · Newbie Joined: 08 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

After all that fluff on the ministerial statement, the main problem is still.. the mindef is not transparent in his dealings with cases like that.
On their website, one cannot never find details relating to cases like mine.
I guess if thats the case, I think my sons will never ever go back to singapore. Not the end of the world, many people have lived their whole life never having visited singapore.
The goverment is just forcing people to make decisions like that, the fact that they do not allow dual citizenship is the main problem. If after serving NS, one is allowed to hold dual citizenship, then its another different story.
I wonder what the UK goverment has got to say on this matter. Since my 2 sons are now british citizens, can they send british citizens to jail in singapore??????
Maybe its the home office that I need to consult.

jpatokal · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject:

Plavt · Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject:

In short as JP says; you are subject to the law of whatever country you are in regardless of what passport or citizenship you hold.

briceloh · Reporter Joined: 03 Oct 2004 Posts: 514

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:

renter · Chatter Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 210

jpatokal · Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:05 am Post subject:

sniper968 · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Singapore

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:52 am Post subject:

I think it's been reduced for a lot of them to around 21 months. As far as the Piano man is concerned, if you have followed the happenings in parliament you will note that his seeming light penalty has raised the ire of a number of MP's so I very much doubt whether the next one will get off so easily.

You have been fragged.
_________________
. .
. .Click here for >>> Helpful Links and Resources For Expats in Singapore

Kurozu · Regular Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Japan

I hope this topic is still open............

I think you r worrying too much. As long as you and your family travel to singapore with British passport, you are safe (even if your kids have 2 or 3 passports).

No country in their right constitution will kidnap a person who is assumed to be a former citizen of a country. Moreover, passport is the proof of your kids' nationality, not your kids' birthplace. Or else the passport has no meaning at all. Furthermore, there are so many families are in your case (mine too) and we encountered no problem.

Maybe that is why you do not find any information that relates to your worry. Because your situation is non-existance. If I were wrong, then many will not travel to Singapore, and Sing Govt will have their hands full dealing with foreign govt over issue like "British citizen forced to serve in Singapore", and that I think is illogical.
_________________
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."

Plavt · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject:

The OP's concen has already been addressed by Jpatokal's answer in which he states 'But yes, if the kid in question waltzes into Singapore for the first time at the age of 30 waving their Sing passport, they will have to do NS'.

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject:

Singapore Expats Forum Singapore Expat Forum and Message Board for Expats in Singapore & Expatriates Relocating to Singapore

Singapore Expats Forum
Singapore Expat Forum and Message Board for
Expats in Singapore & Expatriates Relocating to Singapore